Public Services Committee Meeting

August 15, 2006

The meeting was called to order by Chairman Fogt at 7:00 p.m.

MEMBERS PRESENT: Dan Fogt, Ed Pleasant Excused: Mark Reams

OTHERS PRESENT: Mayor Kruse, Kathy House, Phil Roush, Tracie Davies, John Marshall, Ryan Horns-Journal Tribune, Bob Widder, Lloyd Baker, John and Catherine Cugeber, E. Martha Kramer, Peter Griffin, Eva Rauck, Nicole Coy, Angela Davidson, Amanda Sheets, Harold Green, Crista Miller, Derrick Danze, George Butzer, Deric and Mary Arnett

AGENDA:

1) E. Fifth Street Traffic Study

Mr. Roush reported that a traffic study was done on the E. Fifth Street and Five-Points/Coleman’s Crossing area. DLZ did an administrative review with the draft report. Once the final report is published, there will be a formal presentation at City Council. Traffic counts were done. City provided history of accidents over the past 3-1/2 years at the Five-Points intersection. They factored in the Fifth Street portion between Coleman’s Crossing and Five-Points in its current condition as being closed and also by estimating traffic volumes as if it were open to traffic. Recommendation for short term is that E. Fifth Street should remain closed for the best long-term operation, but the traffic signals on Delaware Avenue should have improved coordination. Long term, should look at providing more lanes on Delaware Avenue or begin planning for a second corridor, which could be along a portion of Fifth Street. Mr. Roush turned the meeting over to George Butzer from DLZ.

Mr. Butzer referred to an aerial photograph showing the area studied, with focus on Five-Points intersection, then Delaware Ave. second. Additional traffic counts were taken at Columbus Street and Coleman’s Crossing to see what existing traffic is. Took counts all the way up to 33 from previous studies. Looked at what would happen if Fifth St. was reopened and how that would affect Columbus Street and Coleman’s Crossing. Also how it would affect Coleman’s and Delaware and reassign some of that traffic to Five-Points intersection and did a capacity analysis on it. There are programs that are nationally accepted that analyze intersections. Found that in short term, Fifth Street doesn’t have a lot of impact either way, open or closed. Traffic will divert there. The main impact is that it takes some of the green time away from the other movements of the Five-Points intersection. This will reduce capacity, so as traffic grows, congestion will get worse at that intersection. It introduces additional conflicts as it relates to safety issues. The more legs you have, the more conflicts you have with opposing traffic and pedestrians. Took all that

traffic and projected out to the year 2026. At that point with Fifth Street open, the Five-Points intersection fails capacity wise. Also, when looking a Delaware Avenue, there are problems 20 years out. Looking at short and long term for Five-Points, it’s best to leave Fifth Street closed now rather than develop that pattern then have to close it in the future and traffic have to readjust to it. Looking at 33 interchange with Delaware Avenue, there is a lot of thru traffic that goes through the ramps from east to west. It’s projected to keep growing. The only way to help alleviate the problem is to add more lanes to Delaware Avenue or to develop another corridor. One potential corridor is shown by the red line on the aerial photo. It involves realignment of Fifth Street from Columbus to the existing Fifth Street, would connect thru and involve a new overpass at 33, then connect with Watkins Road. Feels State would not allow another interchange; it’s too close for another interchange. Other diagrams in the study are traffic projections. He noted a problem with signal coordination between Coleman’s Crossing and Charles Lane. That should be fixed in order to help move traffic through that area. Mr. Roush stated City has a new controller on order for that intersection.

Mr. Roush commented in reviewing the study, feels it’s well done and indicates that we need to move on to step 2 to do a more detailed preliminary traffic development plan that would identify the factors involved in widening Delaware Avenue and look at the alternative of doing a parallel corridor to relieve some of the thru traffic. Look at issues involved, potential cost and locations. We need to continue to move that direction to develop a plan for improvements. The short-term study is more economical than doing the actual work. Believes as Coleman’s Crossing continues to develop and the City Gate property develops in the TIF districts, will begin to generate TIF revenue over and above what it takes to retire the debt, those funds can be focused on providing the actual cost to build the infrastructure. He agrees with the recommendation to leave the intersection at Five-Points the way it is now, which means leaving the railroad crossing on Fifth Street in its current condition. If we were to open that, it would provide not only an unsafe crossing at the railroad, but also more conflict opportunities at the Five-Points intersection, as well as backing up more traffic on Delaware Ave., Cherry Street and Columbus Avenue. We should abide by the recommendation.

Mr. Pleasant agrees with parts of what Mr. Roush said, but believes we need to look at other alternatives, and they need to be probably very severe alternatives. He doesn’t know how you can widen Five-Points to the railroad any more than what it is now. You can make the recommendation but concerned about our ability to do that because it’s already been widened once. He is concerned about the short term. He’s not clear why the recommendation of not opening Fifth St. at the railroad track. From a short range standpoint, would have some relief in and around the Delaware/Coleman’s Crossing area. We need more dialogue. He’s not sure there’s any short range relief happening there. Fears long range means long range, several years. He’s not clear what short-range realistic relief we have.

Mr. Butzer said one of the reasons why they recommended the railroad stay closed was the problems at Coleman’s Crossing and Delaware Ave. aren’t likely to be relieved by Fifth Street being open, because the people using that route aren’t going thru Five-Points; they don’t have a destination that way; they’ll continue using left-double right turn the way they are now. As traffic through that intersection grows with one lane, it’ll make that worse. The Columbus Avenue intersection has pretty low volume now and most of that traffic heading south and making a left turn and going back up would have a shorter route using Fifth. Those numbers are fairly low, so the relief is fairly low number. With the pattern found at Delaware and Coleman’s, didn’t see it acting as a relief point to let it out. It would have been a different recommendation had they seen a demand go through that area that would have been relieved by Fifth St.

Mr. Pleasant stated business owners are concerned that their businesses located in and around Fifth at the railroad crossing are affected by this closure.

Mayor Kruse commented that every time you increase traffic going west on Fifth Street, you activate the light to the point that you decrease the amount of green time on Delaware Avenue. Mr. Butzer responded yes. There is only a certain amount of green time available regardless of cycling. More traffic on Fifth would take more green time and the only place for that to come from are the approaches. If you increase the green time, you increase the delay. Mayor Kruse stated he has lived in Marysville for 35 years and Fifth St. was not a through street for all but about two months of the 35 years. That was a dead-end road and only became a through street when Coleman’s Crossing developed. The bulk of these businesses were there before Coleman’s Crossing came about. He questioned the amount of traffic that was taken away from these businesses because of closing the railroad after two months. Another issue is that if we’re trying to remedy the problem of traffic congestion in the area and Fifth Street as part of that solution, we’re looking at widening Fifth Street. That has to be done. There is also a recommendation to widen Delaware Avenue to help. We have any number of businesses that sit between Fifth Street and Delaware Avenue and we’re going to squeeze the available parking in that area significantly. Everyone must take that into consideration when we’re doing this. Mr. Butzer stated that any time you have a developed stretch with businesses on it, the right-of-way costs are very significant. Mayor Kruse believes using Fifth St. as a remedy for this is going to have a major impact on businesses as opposed to the way it is now. He doesn’t see it any other way. He feels we ought to be going into the next phase as was recommended as far as studying this and be looking for some options to alleviate the congestion problems out there. His personal belief is that Fifth Street is not a part of that.

Mr. Butzer said extending Sixth Street out to Columbus Avenue, connecting that point to Fifth Street, the intersection of Coleman and Fifth that was recently rebuilt, would have to be rebuilt again; it wouldn’t work the way it is. Extend it to near 33. There is a parking area there now you could go through. Not sure where the overpass would be, but then connecting again to Watkins Road. Mr. Roush stated the parking area Mr. Butzer referred to is the Lamborguini dealership. Alignment would have to be worked out. This is just one of the options.

Mayor Kruse feels we should be looking at this more globally instead of one specific problem. Need to look at how we are going to remedy the traffic problem generally on the east side. Feels there is some urgency to that. We need to move forward and look at the options, pick an option and fund it.

Mr. Fogt feels we may be underestimating the amount of vehicles that would use East Fifth Street if it was opened up. It would decrease the traffic on Delaware Avenue.

Mayor Kruse stated it may be that more traffic would use Fifth Street, but it also activates the light more and cuts down on the green time on Delaware Avenue. What you are gaining on Fifth Street and vehicles you are taking off of Delaware Avenue? You are causing more congestion by having more red time. Mr. Roush added the other four approaches also have a decrease in green time, so that may impact southbound Cherry or Columbus Avenue, as well as Delaware Avenue and Fifth Street.

Mr. Fogt stated the study states that we’ve had several complaints. That is underestimated. There has been a couple hundred complaints. He feels the businesses have been seriously affected. We should not underestimate that.

Ms. Martha Kramer addressed the Committee. She has no financial gain for opening Fifth Street. In years past, she would have had a tremendous financial gain had it not been opened. They owned a building out there and stated there was a lot of traffic going through to 84 Lumber. City is talking about traffic going west, not east. Why wouldn’t it alleviate Delaware Avenue traffic if it went out Fifth Street. It would go out to the YMCA and the other businesses going in out there.

Harold Green addressed the committee. It was his understanding when it was first closed that it was a safety issue because of the railroad crossing being in such bad shape. The crossing has now been repaired. He stated there has never been an accident there. He agrees with Ms. Kramer that any time somebody is going east and there is another artery full, if there is another way to send them going east, it’s bound to take off the amount of traffic that’s going that way. Everybody probably going out E. Fifth Street are probably going to Wal-mart or the YMCA and have no reason to go Rt. 36. If there was a street that could be widened, it could be Fifth Street. There is more room for widening on Fifth Street. Need to look short term. Doesn’t feel anyone is smart enough to know what we’ll need in 2026. Mr. Green’s wife was in an auto accident on May 25^th, right after the City closed Fifth Street. The accident occurred at Coleman’s Crossing and Rt. 36. She had to be transported to the hospital at 4:45 p.m. This accident caused major backup clear through Five -Points, Fifth Street and beyond the by-pass. It took forever to get the emergency squad to the scene. The study does not cover anyone being in an automobile accident where they could have gotten through Fifth Street much sooner.

Nicole Coy, owner of L’il Tyles Daycare. The daycare is located right at the railroad tracks on Fifth St. Concern with Page 1 of the study. Things that are most important to her as a business owner were not addressed. Numbers 4 through 8, not addressed. The number 21 cars is underestimated. She has 62 kids at her daycare. That means 62 cars going in and out of her center each day. That is three times the number reported in the traffic study. Mr. Fogt stated the number 21 is per hour, not per day. She gets frustrated and cuts through parking lots of other businesses to get to her business, so she understands the frustration KFC and Natural Accents must feel because of everyone cutting through their lots. She bought the property for her business because of the convenient location for parents. She and parents understood the safety concerns initially, but repairs have been made and now we’re worried about having a negative impact in 2026??? There is no short-term fix for her besides opening it back up. There was an unplanned fire drill and the fire trucks came to her business. It took them 17 minutes to get to her business. They finally cut through Taco Bell to get there. She feels the study does not address her business, her livelihood or her life.

Amanda Sheets addressed the Committee. She is a parent of a child at the daycare. She wants her daughter to be taken care of properly and if one of the arteries needs to be open to help Delaware Avenue, Fifth Avenue is it. The safety issues have gone away, they have been fixed. Main concern is the safety of her daughter. She wants to be sure utilities can get to her if needed. Convenience is next.

Mayor Kruse addressed the safety issue. Safety was the prime concern when it was first closed. The study was an outgrowth of what everybody talked about what needed to be done at that end of town. The railroad crossing is not fixed to be a safe railroad crossing. The repairs made it smoother. His position is that visibility is limited because of the way the tracks come around the bend. Concern has been and continues to be that somebody, particularly someone from one of the daycare centers has picked up their children, they have a lot on their mind or talking on their cell phones. There are 23 trains minimum per day that go across the crossing. Each time we increase the number of cars using that crossing, we increase the odds that somebody will get hit at that crossing. He will not be satisfied that the crossing is safe until there are lights and crossing gates installed. He noted a similar situation on Cherry Street, which is much less of a problem than this crossing. We didn’t have crossing guards or lights there. A carload of teenagers were hit. As a result of that accident, we got crossing guards and lights. As Mayor, he is responsible for making sure things are as safe as possible for the citizens of Marysville. He is not willing to take that chance at this crossing. It is a safety issue.

Ms. Kramer mentioned an article in the Columbus Dispatch talked about railroad crossings and deaths in Ohio. People crossed where there were gates because they didn’t want to wait. It wasn’t just because there were no railroad flashing lights.

Mr. Fogt proposed stop signs with warning signs leading up to the stop sign and would like to see signs warning of the upcoming railroad. The signs proposed are located at the Dublin Jerome High School at the Hyland Croy and Mitchell Dewitt Road. The lights are solar-powered, guaranteed for five years. Back 300 feet from the stop sign, they have a warning sign. On the right hand side they have blinking lights attracting attention to the warning sign. If we have a warning of a railroad crossing ahead, that should be adequate signage. Every vehicle that crosses that railroad would be forced to stop there. Need to get the vegetation controlled at the Fifth Street crossing before opening the crossing.

Ms. Coy offered to have her landscaper cut the weeds and spray them so they would not return. Mr. Roush stated the City asked CSX if they could take care of the vegetation and even attempted to cut the weeds and CSX threatened to sue the City. That is CSX property.

Mr. Fogt sent a letter and followed up with a telephone call regarding the vegetation, but has not yet received a return phone call.

Mr. Green noted the study states that Fifth Street, open or closed, has little impact on the operation of the intersections at the present time. If there is little impact, why not open it up? He noted it was said the crossing gates and lights would cost $140,000. He suggested assessing taxes on the people up and down that roadway. It wouldn’t take long to pay for the equipment. The green time could be cut down on that intersection if traffic was cutting straight through rather than having everyone go Delaware Avenue.

Catherine Cugeber recalled reading an article in the paper weeks ago about the crossing gates and lights and the cost. It was stated the City did not have the funds. In a later article, it said there were other sources for funds for that equipment. She doesn’t understand why CSX wouldn’t have to pay for part of the equipment. Mr. Roush stated PUCO or Ohio Rail Commission has a program where they will fund up to $25,000 towards the lights, then local authorities would have to pay the rest. She suggested the community band together to raise funds to pay for this equipment. Mayor Kruse said he does not have a problem with that. The issue with him is the fact whether or not we have lights and crossing gates. He finds it difficult given the state of the City’s funds to put it into that crossing at this point. His only hang-up with this is the fact that this crossing is safe. That does not take away from the fact that the City should be looking in a broader sense over a longer period of time on what to do in that area. The Mayor is not going to take the chance with people’s lives. Mayor Kruse said if someone wants to take on raising the money, the City will help facilitate it.

Mr. Fogt stated the signs he is proposing cost a little less than $6,000. He feels the City can apply for the Grant from the PUCO and Ohio Rail Commission for $5,000. If we get up to $5,000, the City would only have to pay $1,000.

Mayor Kruse disagreed with Mr. Fogt. He does not feel those signs are enough of a warning or protection at that crossing. Council may be able to do something to get those signs. As Mayor, he is not going to do it.

Mr. Butzer stated the stop signs are not standard signs. They are not in conformance with the Ohio ____ Traffic Control Devices. If you decide to use them, he suggested talking with the City Attorney first, because using a non-standard stop sign could open the City up to liability. Mr. Fogt asked why those signs are not standard signs. Mr. Butzer said there are no signs in the manual that have flashing lights on them for a stop signs. There are beacons above that sign that can be put in. There are no signs with flashing lights on the border of the sign that are approved by either Ohio Department of Transportation or Federal Highway Administration. He advised the City to get legal advice before installing a non-standard signs.

Ms. Coy noted a letter to Ms. House from the Ohio Rail Development Commission. In that letter, they said if the City were to pursue the installation of gates and lights, they would need a current 24-hour traffic count for the Fifth Street crossing. Should the City offer this solution, the ORDC would assist the community in funding the installation. Ms. Coy said the funding is there, so suggested opening the crossing in order to get that 24 hour count so we can apply for the grant. We as a City needs to decide if it’s a valuable area for the businesses, community, citizens and everyone else then move forward to making it safer. Closing it was not a solution to the problem.

Mr. Peter Griffin stated he likes to simply things and tends to believe the safety issues should be separated from the traffic issues. The traffic issue is a distinct issue that must be worked on. Feels we should attack the safety issue at this crossing. He senses there is a lot of frustration and we need to find ways to move forward very quickly then work on the traffic issues.

Mr. Bob Widder, KFC, stated this is not only a safety issue, but a money issue. If the City had the funding, the lights and gates would be there, correct? Mayor Kruse stated to invest $180,000 of the City’s money for putting lights, etc. out there without knowing if it’s part of the long-term solution of the traffic problems in that area is a tremendous waste of City resources. To look at this and say he would put $180,000 into one crossing and not know that it would remedy some major problems, is a waste of money. It’s a safety and money issue. This is why we got into the study as part of this overall discussion, because where does the long-term viability of that crossing fit with the overall plans of traffic flow in that area. He suspects that if we got another corridor, it would never be used. Residents said that’s a long way off.

Mayor Kruse will be not satisfied with anything but flashing lights and crossing gates.

Mr. Kramer stated closing of the railroad hurt the storage rental business. He stated that business, as well as 84 Lumber, has paid taxes for years and has received no respect. If the City spends $200,000 to fix the crossing and in 5-10 years comes up with another plan and has to take other properties by eminent domain, you’re going to spend millions of dollars. He has crossed the crossing on Watkins Road for 60 some years and never remembers an accident. He has seen a million people race the trains on Columbus Avenue. There are no gates at that crossing. If you need gates at Fifth Street, you should have them at Columbus Avenue.

Ms. Sheets said if you don’t invest the money on the crossing, it’s like the City is turning their back on the businesses. Marysville is growing and getting bigger. There is an artery there. We should fix it, use it; invest in Marysville.

Mr. Widder thanked the Committee for holding these meetings and keeping the residents in the loop, but what due diligence are we doing to keep all the businesses in the loop. Since property values are being affected, shouldn’t the City be sending written notices to all the affected businesses? He asked if a study had been done to determine the potential loss of tax dollars when property values go down and sales go down. Won’t that affect other tax purposes as well? Mr. Widder said his sales are down for the first time in many months because of the overall congestion. He asked how much money will the City of Marysville set aside to compensate the business owners through the same avenue when values do go down? Mayor Kruse said that’s a bit ingenuous because virtually everybody who has a business there was there before it was a thru street. The only time the crossing was open was the two months when Coleman’s Crossing was opened. Prior to that everyone who has a business there did it when it was a dead-end road. Mr. Widder said business owners did their research and bought extra land in order to expand their business when the road was open, knowing that development would be occurring. Expanding Fifth Street would be cheaper than expanding Delaware Avenue. If you cut down the green time, decrease the green time down to Cherry Street. Let the excess go through because the people you are hurting are the Marysville residents.

Mr. Kramer stated the building owned by Ms. Coy was there long before the east end was developed, before Watkins Road was taken out to 33. The building has been there since the 40’s.

Mr. Fogt wants to get the vegetation controlled and find a way to agree on fixing that crossing with lights. He feels a stop sign is adequate.

Mr. Roush stated we do have two separate issues, traffic and safety. He feels we should continue to complete the publishing of the traffic study as it’s been presented here in draft, look toward trying to implement the recommendations made and do further study. In a separate issue, look at a resolution for the railroad crossing.

Mr. Fogt said that if we improve that railroad crossing then several years down the road do this where the red line is, we can incorporate the improvement in the railroad crossing. Mr. Roush stated any roadway project that we do, whether it’s widening Delaware Ave. and taking the front yard of the businesses or buying businesses on one side of the street to do the widening project or we do another corridor, which would necessitate buying one or more properties along Fifth Street, some business out there is going to get damaged.

Mr. Butzer said not to focus too much on the red line. It’s just an illustration to say another corridor should be looked at. It could be anywhere. This red line is just to illustrate another corridor besides Delaware Avenue. Focus on the concept that the two solutions are to either widen Delaware Avenue or develop another corridor, which may or may not include the railroad crossing.

Mr. Fogt asked if we make the improvements and add the gates and lights, then we decide to move the red line just southeast of that a bit, can we move those crossing gates to the new location? Mr. Butzer said PUCO will get involved in anything you do. He said PUCO policy used to be no new crossings. He’s not sure if that’s still the policy.

Mayor Kruse has worked with all the railroad companies through the years. For the most part, he found you’re really not going to get much response from them until there is a fatal accident.

Ms. Kramer expressed concern for spending more money for a traffic study when the City doesn’t have the money. She doesn’t know how the City is paying for the new water and sewer systems. This town is so poor when it comes to things that need to be done. She doesn’t know why the City just doesn’t put the lights up there and open it up. She suggested Council overruling the Mayor’s decision if that is possible.

Mayor Kruse is not willing to take money at this point out of the city treasury to fund the city lights and crossing guards, nor is he willing to take the chance on somebody’s life.

Mr. Green said everyone has an opinion. He asked how the residents of Marysville go about getting this open, November ballot or what? Mayor Kruse said that could be done. Residents can have an initiative petition for this issue. He said this is not the only issue where we have people come in and say we should function in a certain way. If we take everything to the ballot that everyone disagrees with then we ought to do away with City Council and Mayor form of government.

2. Major projects status staff meetings

Ms. House reported that key Staff attends a monthly project status meeting to review the many major projects going on in the City. She distributed a sample of the minutes from one of those meetings.

3. Shepherd’s Landing

Question was asked at the last Council meeting what the process would be for this project. Easements and surveying for those easements need to be done and submitted to the City. Mr. Isaacs will be preparing an amendment to the plat, which will then go before Planning Commission for approval. Planning Commission has agreed to act on the plat in one night. It will then go to City Council for their action.

4. 2006 Goals

a. Continue working on the traffic study - School will be in session soon, so an accurate traffic study can be done. Don’t want to do the traffic study until the Milford Center bridge is done. The traffic count is a step towards the comprehensive impact fee.

Meeting adjourned.